Evening Herald - Thursday, April 4, 1895
This report was originally published in English. Machine translations may be available in other languages.
Yesterday’s Cross-Examination.
Mr Carson proceeded to cross-examine the witness. He said—You said at the commencement of your examination that you are thirty-nine years of age. I think you are over forty? I do not think so.
Mr Carson then proceeded to cross-examine the witness. He said — You said at the commencement of your examination that you are thirty-nine years of age. I think you are over forty? I do not think so.
You were born, I believe, on October 16, 1854? Yes.
That makes you somewhat over forty? Very well.
Do you know Lord A Douglas’s age? He is, I think, twenty-four.
When you know him he was about twenty or twenty-one? Yes.
Continuing, witness said he had not, previous to the interview, received a letter from the Marquis expressing the wish that the acquaintance with his son should not continue. Witness knew the defendant did not wish the acquaintance to continue.
Continuing, witness said he had not, previous to the interview, received a letter from the Marquis expressing the wish that the acquaintance with his son should not continue. Witness knew the defendant did not wish the acquaintance to continue.
Mr Carson—And for the reasons he gave you? Yes.
Answering further, witness said he had continued very intimate with Lord A Douglas down to the present moment, and he had been to Oxford, Brighton, Worthing, Cromer, and Torquay with him, but had never taken rooms for him. He had been to various hotels with him, including the Savoy, and had taken rooms for himself at 10 and 11 St James’s place apart from his house in Tite street. Lord Douglas had stopped there, and, as to his poems in the "Chameleon," he thought them exceeding beautiful—the one "In Praise of Shame," and the other "Two Loves." The story objected to in the "Chameleon" was, he thought, from a literary point of view, most objectionable, and he added it was impossible for a man of letters to criticise a work from any other point of view. He did not think there was such a thing as an immoral book. The story in question, "The Priest and the Acolyte.' was, he said, worse. It was badly written.
Answering further, witness said he had continued very intimate with Lord A Douglas down to the present moment, and he had been to Oxford, Brighton, Worthing, Cromer, and Torquay with him, but had never taken rooms for him. He had been to various hotels with him, including the Savoy, and had taken rooms for himself at 10 and 11 St James's place apart from his house in Tite street. Lord Douglas had stopped there, and, as to his poems in the " Chameleon," he thought them exceedingly beautiful—the one "In Praise of Shame," and the other "Two Loves." The story objected to in the "Chameleon" was, he thought, from a literary point of view, most objectionable, and he added it was impossible for a man of letters to criticise a work from any other point of view. He did not think there was such a thing as an immoral book. The story in question, "The Priest and the Acolyte," was, he said, worse. It was badly written.
Do you think the story blasphemous? I think the account of the death violated every artistic canon of poetry.
Do you think the story blasphemous? I think the account of the death violated every artistic canon of poetry.
Do you think the story blasphemous? - I think it violated every artistic canon of beauty.
Do you think the story blasphemous ? — I think it violated evcery artistic canon of beauty.
That is not what I ask. That is the only answer I can give you.
Did you think it blasphemous? I thought it wrong.
I want to see in what position you pose? That is not the way to talk to me. I pose as nothing.
I want to see in what position you pose? That is not the way to talk to me. I pose as nothing.
I want to see your position in reference to this line of publication, and I want to know do you consider that story was blasphemous? The emotion produced in my mind was that of disgust. I did not consider the story a blasphemous production. I think it horrible, but the word "blasphemous" is not my word.
I want to see your position in reference to this line of publication, and I want to know do you consider that story was blasphemous? The emotion produced in my mind was that of disgust. I did not consider the story a blasphemous production. I think it horrible, but the word "blasphemous " is not my word.
Mr Carson read a number of extracts from the article, and said "I think you will admit that anyone who was connected or would allow himself publicly to approve of that article would be posing as a ——?"
Mr Carson read number of extracts from the article, and said "I think you will admit that anyone who was connected or would allow himself publicly to approve of that article would be posing as a—?"
The Witness—No, but I would say it was very bad literary taste.
You disapprove of it from a literary point of view. Did you ever inform the public that you disapproved of it? No I never did.
You disapprove of it from a literary point of view. Did you ever inform the public that you disapproved of it? No, I never did.
Notwithstanding that the article was in a paper to which you yourself contributed, you did not think it necessary to dissociate yourself from it in any public way? I considered it beneath my dignity to write a letter in regard to an article which was the work of an undergraduate.
Notwithstanding that the article was in a paper to which you yourself contributed, you did not think it necessary to dissociate yourself from it in any public way? I considered it beneath my dignity to write a letter in regard to an article which was the work of an undergraduate.
Asking questions concerning the "Paraphrases for the Young," written by the witness in the "Chameleon," counsel read this one:—"There is something tragic about the enormous number of young men in England who start life with perfect profiles, and end by adopting some useful profession.'
Asking questions concerning the "Paraphrases for the Young," written by the witness in the "Chameleon," counsel read this one:—"There is something tragic about the enormous number of young men in England who start life with perfect profiles, and end by adopting some useful profession.'
Witness—The young, I think, have enough sense of humour to see that that is an amusing paradox.
Witness — The young, I think, have enough sense of humour to see that that is an amusing paradox.
Turning to "Dorian Gray," counsel read an extract, and asked, may I take it that no matter how immoral a book was if it was well written it would be a good book? If it were well written it would produce a sense of beauty, and if badly written a sense of disgust.
Turning to "Dorian Gray," counsel read an extract, and asked, may I take it that no matter how immoral a book was if it was well written it would be a good book? If it were well written it would produce a sense of beauty, and if badly written a sense of disgust.
Well, if it put forward disgusting views it would be well written? No work of art ever puts forward views.
Well, if it put forward disgusting views it would be well written? No work of art ever forward views.
Is "Dorian Gray" open to the interpretation of being a disgusting book? Only to brutes and the illiterate. You cannot ask about the interpretation of my work. It does not concern me. What concerns me is my view and my feeling. I do not care "tupence" what the Phillistines think about it.
Is "Dorian Gray" open to the interpretation of being a disgusting book? Only to brutes and the illiterate. You cannot ask about the interpretation of my work. It does not concern me. What concerns me is my view and my feeling. I do not care "tuppence " what the Philistines think about it.
Is "Dorian Gray" open to the interpretation of being a disgusting book? - Only to brutes and the illiterate. You cannot ask about the interpretation of my work; it does not concern me. What concerns me is my view and my feeling. I do not care "tuppence" what Philistines think about it.
The majority of people would come under your term of illiterates? I have found wonderful exceptions.
The majority of people would come under your term of illiterates? I have found wonderful exceptions.
The majority of people would come under your definition of Philistines and illiterates? — I have found wonderful exceptions.
The majority of people would come under your definition of Philistines and illiterates ? - I have found wonderful exceptions.
The majority of people would come under your definition of Philistines and illiterates? - I have found wonderful exceptions.
Your book might have an improper meaning to the ordinary individual? I have no knowledge of the ordinary individual.
Your book might have an improper meaning to the ordinary individual? I have no knowledge of the ordinary individual.
Mr Carson read the description of the artist’s feelings on first meeting "Dorian Gray," and in reply to a question,
Mr Wilde said—I think this is the most perfect description possible of what an artist would feel on meeting a beautiful personality.
Plaintiff: I think it is the most proper description possible of what an artist would feel on meeting a beautiful personality.
You mean a beautiful person? Yes, a beautiful young man if you like.
You mean a beautiful person? Yes, a beautiful young man if you like.
Having read another passage, Mr Carson asked—Do you mean to say that that describes the National of one man towards another? It describes the influence produced on an artist by a beautiful personality.
Having read another passage, Mr Carson asked — Do you mean to say that that describes the National feeling of one man towards another? It describes the influence produced on an artist by a beautiful personality.
Having read another passage, Mr. Carson asked: Do you mean to say that that describes the natural feeling of one man towards another? - It describes the influence produced on an artist by a beautiful personality.
Mr. Carson read a lengthy passage from "Dorian Gray" as originally published. Do you mean to say that that passage describes the natural feeling ot one man towards another ? — It would be the influence produced on an artist by a beautiful personality.
Mr. Carson read a lengthy passage from "Dorian Grey" as originally published. Do you mean to say that that passage describes the mutual feeling of one man towards another? - It would be the influence produced on an artist by a beautiful personality.
The book speaks of adoration for the youth Dorian. Have you experienced that? I have never given adoration to anybody but myself (laughter).
The book speaks of adoration for the youth Dorian. Have you experienced that? I have never given adoration to anybody but myself (laughter).
I dare say you think that is very smart? Not at all.
Asked a further question, Mr Wilde exclaimed, "I do not know what you are talking about," to which counsel retorted, "Well, I hope I shall make myself very plain before I am done."
Asked a further question, Mr Wilde exclaimed, "I do not know what you are talking about," to which counsel retorted, "Well, I hope I shall make myself very plain before I am done."
Asked a further question, Mr. Wilde exclaimed, "I do not know what you are talking about," to which counsel retorted, "Well, I hope I shall make myself very plain before I am done."Do you sympathise with, "I want to have you all to myself?" I should consider it an intense bore.
Later witness said he borrowed the sensations described in the book from Shakespeare’s sonnets, and added—"There are people in the world who cannot understand the intense devotion, affection, and adoration that an artist can feel for either a wonderful and beautiful person or a wonderful and beautiful friend. Those are the conditions under which we live. I regret them.'
Later witness said he borrowed the sensations described in the book from Shakespeare's sonnets, and added — "There are people in the world who cannot understand the intense devotion, affection, and adoration that an artist can feel for either a wonderful and beautiful person or a wonderful and beautiful friend. Those are the conditions under which we live. I regret them."
"I grew afraid that the world would know of my idolatry." Why should he grow afraid that the world should know it? - Because there are people in the world who cannot understand the intense devotion, affection, and admiration that an artist can feel for a wonderful and beautiful personality. These are the conditions under which we live. I regret them.
"I grew afraid that the world would know of my idolatry." Why should he grow afraid that the world should know of it?—Because there are people in the world who cannot understand the intense devotion, affection, and admiration that an artist can feel for a wonderful and beautiful personality. These are the conditions under which we live. I regret them.
"I grew afraid that the world would know of my idolatry." Why should he grow afraid that the world should know of it ? — Because there are people in the world who cannot understand the intense devotion, affection, and admiration that an artist can feel for a wonderful and beautiful personality. These are the conditions under which we live. I regret them.
People who have not a high understanding you think, might put it down to something wrong? Undoubtedly. Hallam had done it about Shakespeare’s sonnets.
People who have not a high understanding you think, might put it down to something wrong? Undoubtedly. [...] had done it about Shakespeare's sonnets.
Turning to the personal letter written by witness to Lord A Douglas, counsel asked—"Was that an ordinary letter?"
Turning to the personal letter written by witness to Lord A Douglas, counsel asked — "Was that an ordinary letter?"
Witness—Certainly not. An ordinary letter—no!
Do you mean to tell me this was a natural and proper way to address a young man? You are criticising a poem. If you ask me whether it is proper, you might as well as me whether "King Lear" is proper or a sonnet of Shakespeare proper.
Do you mean to tell me this was a natural and proper way to address a young man? You are criticising a poem. If you ask me whether it is proper, you might as well ask me whether "King Lear" is proper or a sonnet of Shakespeare proper.
But apart from art? I can’t answer any question apart from art. A man who was not an artist could never have written that letter. He could not have used the language I used unless he was a man of letters and an artist.
But apart from art? I can't answer any question apart from art. A man who was not an artist could never have written that letter. He could not have used the language used unless he was a man of letters and an artist.
Was that the ordinary way in which you carried on your correspondence with Lord A Douglas? One could not write a letter like this every day. It would be like writing a poem every day—you couldn’t do it.
Was that the ordinary way in which you carried out your correspondence with Lord A Douglas? One could not write a letter like that every day. It would be like writing a poem every day—you couldn't do it.
Mr Carson, having quoted from another letter asked—Is that an extraordinary letter? I think everything I write extraordinary. I do not pose as being ordinary. Good heavens! (angrily) ask me any questions you like about it.
Mr Carson, having quoted from another letter asked—Is that an extraordinary letter? I think everything I write extraordinary, I do not pose being ordinary. Good heavens! (angrily) ask me any questions you like about it.
Is that an extraordinary letter?—I think everything I write is extraordinary. I don't pose as being ordinary, great heavens! Ask me any question you like
Mr Carson—When did the man named Wood first come to you about the letters which he had found in Lord A Douglas’s coat? An appointment was made through Mr A Taylor.
Mr Carson — When did the man named Wood first come to you about the letters which he had found in Lord A Douglas’s coat? An appointment was made through Mr A Taylor.
Answering further questions Mr Wilde said he met Wood at the Cafe Royal at Lord A Douglas’s request. He frequently went to 13 Little College street, and had tea there sometimes.
Answering further questions Mr Wilde said he met Wood at the Cafe R0yal at Lord A Douglas’s request. He frequently went to 13 Little College street, and had tea there sometimes.
Mr Carson—I think there were all young men at those tea parties? No, not at all.
Mr Carson — I think there were all young men at those tea parties? No, not at all.
They were all men? Yes.
Do I understand that the very first day you saw Wood you took him round to the Florence Restaurant? Yes.
Do I understand that the very first day you saw Wood you took him round to the Florence Restaurant? Yes.
Was Taylor also present? No.
In reply to further questions witness emphatically denied having any unlawful relations with Wood. The £15 he gave him was to pay his passage to New York, and witness gave him £5 more the next day.
In reply to further questions witness emphatically denied having any unlawful relations with Wood. The £15 he gave him was to pay his passage to New York, and witness gave him £5 more the next day.
Did you have a champagne lunch with him before he left for America? Yes.
Did you have a champagne lunch with him before he left for America? Yes.
With the man you thought wanted to blackmail you? Yes.
Answering further questions, witness said Wood called him Oscar. Almost everybody called him by his Christian name. Allen, who brought him the "prose poem," was a notorious blackmailer. He gave him 10s out of contempt. That was one of the best ways to show contempt.
Answering further questions, witness said Wood called him Oscar. Almost everybody called him by his Christian name. Allen, who brought him the "prose poem," was a notorious blackmailer. He gave him 10s out of contempt. That was one of the best way to show contempt.
Counsel proceeded to put questions with regard to the "office boy" of witness’s publishers.
Counsel proceeded to put questions with regard to the "office boy" of witness’s publishers.
Mr Wilde denied that the lad was the office boy, and said he was an assistant. He was not good looking, but had an intellectual face. He had dined with witness at the Albemarle Hotel.
Mr Wilde denied that the lad was the office boy, and said he was an assistant. He was not good looking, but had an intellectual face. He had dined with witness at the Albemarle Hotel.
For the purpose of having an intellectual treat? Well, for him, yes (laughter).
For the purpose of having an intellectual treat? Well, for him, yes (laughter).
Other questions were asked by counsel, and, ultimately, Mr Wilde, turning to the Judge, asked—Is it not sufficient for me to give an entire denial, without being exposed to the ignominy of detail after detail? Why should I be exposed before the whole court in entering into this sort of thing, which cannot possibly be borne?
Other questions were asked by counsel, and, ultimately, Mr Wilde, turning to the Judge, asked—Is it not sufficient for me to give an entire denial, without being exposed to the ignominy, of detail after detail? Why should I be exposed before the whole court in entering into this sort of thing, which cannot possibly be borne?
Mr Carson did not persist.
Cross-examination continued—He became acquainted with a boy named Alfonso Conway, at Worthing, who was about 18 years of age, but had no occupation. He denied having any unlawful relations with him. He had given him a cigarette case with the inscription "Alfonzo: from his friend Oscar Wilde." He had also given this boy his photograph and a book.
Cross-examination continued — He became acquainted with a boy named Alfonso Conway, at Worthing, who was about 18 years of age, but had no occupation. He denied having any unlawful relations with him. He had given him a cigarette case with the inscription "Alfonzo: from his friend Oscar Wilde." He had also given this boy his photograph and a book.
Cross-examination continued—He became acquainted with a boy named Alfonzo Conway at Worthing, who was abont eighteen years of age, but had no occupation. He denied having any unlawful relations with him. He had given him a cigarette case, with the incription, "Alfonso, from his friend, Oscar Wilde." He had also given this boy his photograph, a book, and a walking stick. He took him to Brighton, and gave him a new suit of clothes and a straw hat.
Did you bring this boy with you to Brighton? Yes.
You bought him this straw hat and a blue suit to make him look more like your equal? Oh no, he could never look that.
You bought him this straw hat and a blue suit to make him look more like your equal? Oh no, he could never look that.
How is it he was so good a companion for you? Because his was a pleasant, bright, simple, nice nature.
How is it he was so good a companion for you? Because his was a pleasant, bright, simple, nice nature.